Theatre of the Mind Podcast Episodes

The Open Focus Brain

Kelly Howell: Our show today is on The Power of Attention, not intention, but attention. And, my guest is Dr. Les Fehmi, author of The Open Focus Brain. Dr. Fehmi is the director of the Princeton Biofeedback Center. He holds an MA and PhD in psychology from UCLA and completed his post doctoral fellowship at UCLA's Brain Research Institute. As a certified speed and explosion specialist, Dr. Fehmi has worked with the Dallas Cowboys, the New Jersey Mets, and the Olympic Development Committee.

Hi, Dr. Fehmi. Welcome to the show.

Dr. Les Fehmi: Hi. I'm glad to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

Kelly: Before we start, could you tell us what a speed and explosion specialist is for people that might not know?

Les: It sounds like a terrorist organization.

Kelly: It does. It sounds like bomb making or something. [laughter 02:19]

Les: Well, in most athletic sports your ability to explode up to a high rate of speed is very essential. So, there are special physical exercises and mental exercises you can do to facilitate that exploding up to speed and then maintaining high speed. That's what a speed and explosion coach does.

Kelly: When you were working with the Dallas Cowboys, what did you do exactly with them?

Les: Well, I worked with the conditioning coach and I taught him the various techniques associated with attention training. It turns out that there are four kinds of attention; brain now attention which most people understand and know pretty well, and a kind of objective attention that is where you feel you're separate from what your attending to. And then, there are two other kinds that are underdeveloped in our society which are a wide open kind of attention and also an immersed kind of attention your into like when you're playing a musical instrument or keeping time with the music, you're immersed more into the expanse.

It turns out you function better when you're really into it and you're wide open and you have your eyes centered on the ball and you merge with the setting. So, most athletes know about this. Most performing artists have an understanding that what I'm saying is true.

Kelly: It's interesting because in your book you say that in our culture we do not recognize or make use of the full repertoire of attention styles. And just personally for me when I'm playing music, I know that I go into that immersed style. Yet, when I sit at the computer, and I think a lot of people have this experience, we get into the narrow focus.

Les: Yes, yes.

Kelly: Why is that that we can't hold that immersion?

Les: Well, we want to control our environment and our major tools for controlling the environment are narrow and objective attention. And so when we're on the computer, we're controlling various things and that's a major function of being on the computer. Now, if you were doing that and also open to the whole world around you and more immersed in everything, then you'd be able to hang in there longer and probably perform better. But, that isn't what people generally do. They're taught to narrow and objectify their attention.

And, everybody rewards us for that narrow and objective attention. Pay attention to me. They mean narrow focus on them.

Kelly: You say that we're addicted to it.

Les: We're addicted, yes, we certainly are. It's our culture.

Kelly: It's a habit.

Les: Probably all western civilization is addicted.

Kelly: What are the consequences of being primarily in the narrow focus attention style?

Les: Well, there are many consequences. Perhaps the major one is that in narrow objective attention we accumulate stress. We don't enter the kind of attention that allows stress to defuse, to dissipate, to dissolve. So, we end up being much more stressed than we would be otherwise if we also let in a defuse attention and a more immersed overall attention.

Kelly: Shall we talk about the open focus attention style and how that's different?

Les: Sure. The open focus form of attention is one that includes all the basic kinds of attention so that narrow and objective and defused and immersed all are present simultaneously and roughly equally. That's what open focus attention is. And if we focus more and more in that open focus style, then stress defuses and our ability to function improves and we are happier while we're doing this and we perform better.

Kelly: Is open focus a whole brain function?

Les: It includes all the kinds of attention and therefore, does include the whole brain and the way the whole brain functions, yes.

Kelly: How is it different than say the defused?

Les: Yeah, that's often a problem for people. They tend to mix up wide open attention with open focus. Open focus, as I said, includes all four kinds of attention, four basic kinds, and wide open attention is just one of those four. It is defused or wide open attention. So, we want to get immersed. On top of that, we want to get immersed on top of that, we want to narrow and objectify as well as be diffused. Diffused would be like a space cadet. Someone who just doesn't have a focus, doesn't have a goal. It just would not be adequate. In fact, no one form of attention practiced to the exclusion of others is ultimately ideal. Maybe momentarily, but that would be the most.

Kelly: Are there particular brain wave patterns associated with each of the different attention styles.

Les: Yes.

Kelly: Oh, tell us about that. I want to hear about that.

Les: Yes, there are brain waves associated with diffuse and immersed attention. I build my first EEG in the 60's and practiced with it and tried to produce more alpha activity. I couldn't do it even after many many hours of trying. Finally, while still connected to the EEG machine, I surrendered and I let go of trying to do it. And at that moment I got a very dramatic increase in the amplitude and the occurrence of alpha. Alpha is a range of frequencies between eight and 12 or 13. And along with that, was a wonderful release in my personal experience and myself. I was able to feel free and open and functional in ways that I couldn't otherwise. I had no idea I was so tense. And I only understood it and believed it after I was able to let go of that tension.

Kelly: So you were in the narrow focus?

Les: Yes, I was very narrow focused. And objective, which is the style worshiped by science.

Kelly: Why is it called objective? Because it sounds that it's very controlling. Why do you call it narrow focus objective?

Les: Because for example now when you're asking this question you're narrow focused on a certain limited aspect of experience and you're separate from me and asking the question to me as a separate entity. That's the objective part of it. In other words there's a separation between subject and object.

Kelly: And then open focus is more a wholeness experience?

Les: Right, it includes a much more diffuse all‑around kind of attention and an immersed kind of attention. And a separate objective kind of attention and a very narrow kind of attention, all in roughly equal amounts.

Kelly: You train a lot of people how to enter the open‑focused state?

Les: Yes. I've been doing that since the 60's.

Kelly: What kind of people come to you and for what kind of purposes?'

Les: Well we have a clinic in Princeton and we treat people with various stress related disorders: anxiety, depression, ADD. I mean people don't usually think of ADD as a stress‑related disorder but in fact it is. The more stress, the more anxious a person is, the less well they pay attention. So by just teaching a person to pay attention in a relaxed in to it kind of way we help them pay attention better. They can scan material better they can understand what they're reading better, etc.

Kelly: Do you think that our culture has become a little ADD with all the stress people are undergoing?

Les: There's little doubt in my mind that that's true.

Kelly: Are you seeing it a lot?

Les: A lot, yeah. And I say it in the book. There's a chapter in there that love is a way of paying attention. It's a way of merging with the object of your attention, which is the other person, or the music you're listening to, or the scenery, or whatever. Let me just say, but so is pain. Pain is controlled by the way we pay attention. Much of our work at the clinic has to do with some kind of either physical or psychological pain. We're very successful at reducing that rather quickly.

Kelly: In your book you give an example of a woman Susan who used the open‑focus technique to work through her anxiety and feelings of helplessness. I think she was a client or patient of your wife. And she was able to, on the spot, disolve the anxiety. Would you like to share that story?

Les: Yes, Well it's a very simple shift of attention. One I would share with you now except that there will be listeners who are traveling on the road and it probably not be safe to listen because it's fairly powerful and there are changes in perception that occur in the process. They should be driving not doing this kind of thing.

Kelly: OK everyone pull over your car.

Les: If they only would.

Kelly: They will. You know I was listening to your CD in the car and it actually helped me driving.

Les: How did it help you?

Kelly: I did feel a sense of spaciousness and expansion while I was driving. Instead of you know, sometimes when we drive our minds get wrapped around a thought and just kind of grinding away. So it was a more open‑focus a more expanded.

Les: So you know what we're talking about?

Kelly: I do.

Les: I wouldn't use your experience of expanded attention as a model for others who have much less experience in the areas we're discussing. You're obviously a long‑term seeker of various kinds of awareness.

Kelly: You say in your CD that ?

Les: There are two CDs that help you dissolve pain.

Kelly: Interestingly you talk about imagining awareness an emerging, I can't remember what you said but it was a process of expanding and emerging and always changing. I thought that was quite beautiful.

Les: The whole thing about awareness is beautiful. After a session you go outside and whatever you're looking at somehow looks gorgeous and you feel like you're part of what you're seeing.

Kelly: How often and for how long does a session take?

Les: Well most of the tapes are around a half hour. There's one very long one. CDs I meant to say, not tapes. There's one very long one having to do with seeing and open focus. But otherwise, they're about a half an hour. And when they come to see me, when they're in the clinic for treatment, I recommend three times a day. So that would be three half hours, either all at once or separated by some time. And, people who are serious about making gains do practice three times and then they very quickly feel better and often drop their practice down to two or one hour a day which I don't recommend. I recommend to maximize our time together that they practice three times a day. But, even once a day is a wonderful experience.

Kelly: Could you give us an example of how a person would incorporate the practice of open focus attention into their regular daily routine?

Les: Well, since it's a fundamental thing that we're training here which is attention, and you're always paying attention, so it's rather easy to transfer into other situations. But in addition, we have a CD which helps a person learn how to function in open focus in trying settings. For example, we ask a person during this one CD to imagine a situation that they find difficult or anxiety producing and to imagine being in that situation in open focus. So, the first part of the CD is getting the person into a nice open focus and the second part is to imagine a situation that is trying and the third part is to imagine it in open focus and merge with the feelings and let them dissolve.

So as you imagine different situations in your daily life, you can bring open focus into those situations by imagining that you're already there attending in open focus.

Kelly: So, you would do that in a practice session in the morning before you started work or...

Les: Yes, or at night or at any time. And then when you're in that situation, there's some natural transfer that occurs.

Kelly: Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Les: Well, imagine that there's a member of your family that's very difficult and hard to relate to. And, you can imagine being with that person, and then feeling the feelings that you have when you're around that person and do a short dissolving pain exercise dissolving the pain that they create or seem to create. And then, merge with that and let that pain defuse and continue on until you're able to function with that person in a more relaxed, intimate way. And, that's what you would like to do in every situation, I'm sure. But, this is a specific example of a family member that would be helped by you learning to pay attention in open focus in a specific situation.

In the performing arts there would be another example. There are many, many possible situations when you're arguing with your boss or spouse or trying situations, it's most helpful.

Kelly: Performance, anxiety.

Les: Yes, performance and anxiety. And, you know, depression for example, or some situations make us depressed and you can imagine being in that situation, dissolving that depression, and then functioning in a way that doesn't produce depression.

Kelly: I didn't hear that one CD. I only got the CD that came with your book.

Les: Oh yes, there are 18 of them.

Kelly: Oh, so I missed that whole thing.

Les: That was 0 for 2. That was the introductory information, a little bit on the beginning of the book included CD, and then it was called Head in Hands. That's a nice introduction to the whole process. And then, a later one called General Training, General Open Focus Training.

Kelly: Where can people get those different CDs?

Les: Yes. They could go to our website, openfocus.com, and they can order through the website.

Kelly: I want to get them now. I enjoyed the one that came with the book.

Les: Yes. Well, they all are specialized for a certain attentional functions. So, the whole program requires as many tapes as there are.

Kelly: How is open focus training different from say progressive relaxation or meditation?

Les: Well, it's so hard to answer that question with regard to meditation. Meditation covers so many things. Everybody calls what they're doing medication, and I suppose it is. But, I've avoided that word because I think this is attention training, it's straight forward.

Kelly: OK. In terms of brain wave activity perhaps maybe there's some distinctions or not?

Les: Yes, I would say depending on the kind of meditation you do. If you focus on a candle flame and try to exclude everything else, then of course, that would be associated with more beta activity, for those of you who know what that is. And, for those who are looking for a kind of meditation or practicing a kind of meditation that is wide open to everything and all the space around you and all the things in that space, a space that extends limitlessly in every direction, well, that's more a synchronous low frequency activity say than in alpha. And so on. There are special brain waves associated with the different kinds of attention.

Kelly: And, open focus is primarily alpha?

Les: No. It includes alpha but the idea that all the different kinds of attention are included is important.

Kelly: So, it's a balance.

Les: Yes, it's the balance. We want the balance and we're healthy when we have the balance and we function better, we perform better, we live a happier, healthier life.

Kelly: You've been in biofeedback for so long, forty years? I'm just curious, this is off the subject, but it seems that there isn't as much funding for biofeedback as there used to be.

Les: There never was much, and it's really a shame. We find that it's so effective in our hands. When I was first starting in the sixties I had my first realization that came from practicing with the equipment that I built. I saw within six months or a year there's going to be an EEG biofeedback or neurofeedback device on every nightstand or in every home, because it's so wonderful and it released me completely. Of course that didn't happen and that was 40 years ago. Everybody seems to have their own turf in medicine and psychology. They're doing something they've attached to and wanted to deepen. Neurofeedback is waiting for the next generation to come along and pick up the flag and go with it. It's a disappointment to me also.

Kelly: Well probably because there are no drugs involved [laughter 25:06]

Les: [laughter 25:07] They use drugs too, but I think people should try neurofeedback first. It's non‑invasive and effective.

Kelly: Do you have any tips for people if they're interested in trying neurofeedback and finding a practitioner to work with? Are there any questions that should be asked?

Les: Find out who participates in AAPB, ISNR and get some references to people from those organizations so that you're not getting anybody who just purchased a machine and has little depth in its use. That's probably what I would do. The Association for Applied Psychophysiology and Biofeedback, that's AAPB. The other one is ISNR, the International Society for Neuronal Regulation.

Kelly: Can you go over the most common conditions that are easily treatable through neurofeedback?

Les: I should mention first: anxiety. Everybody comes in with anxiety. If they want treatment there's a strong component of anxiety. That's the first thing we do, we drop the anxiety quite a bit and we can do it fairly rapidly. By the fifth session they've already diminished anxiety. Almost all of our clients have diminished their anxiety enough so that they're functioning in a different way. Then, of course, depression is associated with anxiety. People depress themselves to feel less anxious. So we try to work with that also. Sometimes depression is most prominent and anxiety is secondary to depression. Most of the time, depression is secondary to anxiety. So we work with the anxiety and the depression disappears.

For ADD we're looking to help a person generate a relaxed, interested kind of pretension in which they can bring to any subject or to any endeavor. That's just the way that process works.

Then, of course, physical pain; we teach them how to develop physical pain, all kinds of emotional pain other than anxiety and depression.

Kelly: For someone who wants to learn open focus at home, they can do that with your CDs right?

Les: It certainly will help a lot for most people. There are some people who already have clinical level symptoms and are right at the verge of serious additional problems. I would recommend they find a local physician, psychologist, or psychiatrist and be guided by them.

Kelly: For a person, just the average stress... [laughter 29:05]

Les: [laughter 29:06] The average stress which is strong in our society. Lots of people are living with eight and nine level anxiety. For some it's episodic, but for others it's chronic. So, I definitely think the CDs can help people dissolve anxiety, sadness, depression, loneliness, many psychological symptoms, and physical symptoms as well. In the case of physical symptoms people should get checked out by their physicians.

Kelly: Dr. Fehmi thanks so much for coming on the show.

Les: It's been my pleasure.

Kelly: I would love it if you could share your website address again so people can order the CDs and your book.

Les: Sure, www.openfocus.com. My email address is This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .

Kelly: Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today.

Les: I'm happy to have been invited, thank you.

Kelly: Once again, Dr. Fehmi's website is www.openfocus.com. [outro 30:31]